Wednesday, September 21

[gottawonder]

Today I am grateful for:

A truly lovely fall day. Bright and sunny, a little cool, very nice.

The contractor thought the priming job I did in the cold room passed muster (though really, what's he going to do, fire me?).

We had our daily check in about progress and such.

He cut the hole into the floor of the sun room, to tie it into the heating system. He thinks he might have a vent cover at home somewhere that he will bring, or we can look for one.

I went to see River, and we had a lesson today.

I was thrown off guard by R saying today we would video for the virtual show. She didn't say that that is what we would be doing, and I didn't have the required shirt. Trying to video it today with just a crappy t-shirt would likely mean wasting my money because I would get disqualified.

Also, I demonstrated to her that River was just not ready to do this lead line class. His halts have been very bad since he needed to have medication.

I know that this is because what she had to do to address his issue of avoiding the medication was to really disengage his hind end over and over and over to teach him that turning away was only going to mean work and discomfort. So, the fallout from that is now he reads every body movement towards him as a request to move out of your space.

We are nearly back to square one with getting a good halt.

She worked with him a bit and got some improvement, but I didn't feel like we could then segue into trying to show that pattern.

So, we aren't going to bother trying to do it this time.

Now it gets more tiresome. She spends the rest of the lesson, and quite a long time past it, talking to me again about the need to have her work with him for a while. I had already agreed to do that the last time we wasted a whole lesson talking about his issues (that he can react really badly when he is overwhelmed).

She talks about how there is something blocking the energy in him, and in me, and there isn't a connection (okay, so far I'm with her). That he needs to learn to react differently to things that trigger him (got it).

That when he first came here, he had a host of guardian angels hovering over him, and that she needs to do work to get those angels to help us (whoa).

That I am going to have to dig deep into my own energy etc. and do...something personal and likely very embarrassing about that (oh no, she's not actually a therapist...just sayin').

All of this is getting very complicated again. I am not a woo woo person, and she knows that. I feel like very soon she will want me to start paying someone to do Reiki on my horse, and get an animal communicator out there or something, or spend a bunch of money on training sessions that are going to involve her rubbing him with crystals and trying to talk to his angels.

I don't know if I CAN say no. I'm getting from her that she needs River's behavior to improve, and I get that. She is a trainer, though, and this is why I am boarded with her, is to work through this kind of thing. I just don't know if I want to shell out tons of money on energy work and tarot card readings for my horse.

Sigh.

My life is just so freaking weird.

Honestly, the woo woo crowd just keeps coming back to me. I don't hate those people by any stretch. I generally humor them. I like the crystals because they are pretty. I like to meditate, I have spirit cards etc but I don't treat them as gospel, I just enjoy the process of using them to get a different perspective. I generally don't make important decisions based upon them.

Mostly the woo woo crowd are kind and mean well, right up until they "feel problems with your energy, and it is the root of the issue" (often an issue you didn't know you had) and want you to pay them or their friends money to "run energy" on you, or do an exorcism or something.

Again and again and again this keeps coming up with me. Maybe because I am not actively running away from them? No one EVER comes into my husband's life, telling him he needs to have energy work done on him. No one. NO ONE tries to do an exorcism on his bike or his car, or tries to read him tarot cards. No one ever tells him he is going to have to dig into his own deep seated issues to keep riding his mountain bike.

Why me?

I almost feel like I am just being told that River and I are a shitty team, and that after being at the barn for two years, we are still performing at a very mediocre level, and that she doesn't know how to transform us into glittering super stars. So she's going to make it awful for me, and I am going to pay her for it.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe all of this will help. Maybe it isn't some very convoluted way of making me feel deeply uncomfortable.

I don't know. It's all too much.

I came home, kind of napped badly, and then got a coat of paint on in the cold room.

I learned that Prairie dogs build their burrows with a flat orifice at one end and a mounded one at the other. During a breeze, the different surface geometries create a pressure differential via the Bernoulli effect, forcing air to flow from the flat end to the mounded end, ventilating the burrow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_dog#Habitat_and_burrowing

Comments

[sherlockishere]

I'm kind of not liking R at the moment. I would not like that level of negativity either, TBH. And it seems unfair.

You know, there are a LOT of woo-woo people in my world, too. I choose to let it roll over me without confrontation, because I know they're well-meaning. But in the final analysis, I'm just inherently a scientist. I want evidence.

[gottawonder]

Well, I understand how she feels about River's issues. They make him hard to work with, could potentially be dangerous, and when she had to give him his medication twice a day, that makes for a pretty annoying horse to have around.

I absolutely am with her on the need to have her spend time working with him specifically on the issue of him pulling back/rearing when he is overwhelmed.

The other stuff, like feeling like I have to do some very woo woo things to satisfy her, to make her feel like we are doing our best to address the energy, feels uncomfortable for me.

She also talked about how he was "a trouble maker" this summer. That label bothers me, because everything that he did still seemed like just normal horse stuff. He got a swollen eye from flies biting him. That isn't him causing trouble. He lost his fly mask a couple of times. Well, in at least one known case it was another horse pulling it off of him. His puncture wound on his hind leg (which precipitated the need for daily antibiotics and cold hosing), is that him causing trouble?

She feels that these incidents were him "calling out for help". Yet, I also know that my Trainwreck sister is also always hurting herself, covered in bruises and small cuts. I know that people with issues seem to "get hurt" a lot because they don't take as much care of themselves. I don't know if horses work that way.

Yet, I can't deny that she has had some amazing results with horses. There is one horse that one of the other riders got given to her, that was an aggressive gelding with all kinds of dangerous issues, and a year later they are making good progress with him.

This is the thing. I am pretty uncomfortable with all of this, but what if some of it does work? How would I know what part of it was effective?

It's the feeling that I can't say no that bothers me.

[cf2princessawnw]

I'm sorry you're feeling like you can't say no. As you know, I definitely do not know enough about horses to be able to help constructively with advice. All I can say is for someone talking about issues that stem from somewhere and positive energy.... why on earth is she labeling "trouble maker" and making you clearly feel worse. Just reading your post, I can see how it affected you. I'm not sure how, but it's made you doubt yourself and disturb your peace. You and River have SUCH a good relationship and connection, and from everything you've EVER said, River is a gentle normal horse - never a trouble maker. SHE is having trouble and labeling him as that. Because out of the three of you, she is the one sounding like she gives of negative energy. If there is an issue, shouldn't she address it hopefully? Like hey great news, with this woo woo stuff, I can help you! Yeah it's a little weird but give it a shot!

I try to respect what other people believe and how they views things, but I have to admit I was laughing many times as you wrote. Horse angels? I guess I never thought about it. Just why? We're here to take care of them. Will she eventually want Reiki for the angels if they don't cooperate too?

I'm sorry you're facing that awkward and weird situation. River is like your kid in a sense that you take care of him, love him, spend time with him, and are responsible for him. That said, YOU know him better than anyone. Even if she has amazing skills as an actual trainer. If you say it's normal horse stuff - it's normal horse stuff. You know when he's off and you know when something's up. It feels like she's picking on you and I don't know why. She can't break through so she's trying to make everyone else feel bad too???

Anyway, I hope you find a decision or approach that returns your peace and joy in this to you.

I wonder what is going on with her that makes her see him as trouble for her. She is supposed to be caring for him and responding to his pace and training needs, not labeling him because she is reacting to him instead.

As always, if anything I said is not helpful, please toss it out the window. You don't need more stress in this! :)

[gottawonder]

I think you have made some good points here.

The behaviors I described about River losing his fly mask or getting an irritated eye are NORMAL. They are not signs of a horse acting out to draw attention to his issues.

I agree, that R is somehow feeling very badly about her interactions with River, and she is confused by all of this, and that is probably not an easy thing for her to deal with since she is a successful trainer.

I think that her recent "work" with River to get him to take his medication has actually knocked back some of the feelings of trust he had built, thus the not standing still. I think she knows that she did that to him, and that bothers her too.

She keeps talking about how there is something wrong with my energy, and his, but what about the fact that he wasn't co-operating with HER? She seems to be in full denial of that reality. She blames it on the fact that "she and River don't have the opportunity to form a relationship", which might be somewhat true. The only time she ends up interacting directly with him is for things like giving him drugs, BUT she also does interact with him a bit during our lessons, and in the lessons that she does with the young lady who works with him a few times a month (she uses him as her lesson horse).

I too, felt hurt by her suggestion that River and I did not have a good relationship, since I truly feel that in the last two years, we have really improved. You don't do Liberty work with a horse who doesn't have a good bond with you.

I think the reason why it has disturbed my peace so much, is because it is not an entirely true representation of the situation, and she is leaving out the part where she may have damaged her relationship with him. She is calling him a trouble maker, instead of just saying "I am annoyed at having to give him medication and treating a wound that he got that was a perfectly normal occurrence with horses".

I feel like she thinks I am a trouble maker too, because I mentioned my concerns about having piles of trees and boards in their pasture, and I also refused to leave his halter on in the pasture over his fly mask (she does this to help keep them on the horses, believe it or not HER horses pull them off too). Leaving a halter on a horse in the pasture is asking for trouble, and I have been taught that my whole life. They can get it hooked on something, panic, and break their necks, or get a leg through them and hurt their legs. I told her I would rather he lost his fly mask than risk death or injury.

So, perhaps she is calling River a trouble maker, when what she really means is that I am a trouble maker for speaking up for the safety of my horse.

Using River this way is like talking to me with a hand puppet, and pretending that it is the HAND PUPPET saying things to me.

I have been there now for over two years, and I generally do not request any of the spiritual assistance she likes to use with others. I wonder if she is starting to feel like I am rejecting her spirituality, or that I am not part of the group because of that.

I don't reject them outright. I don't disrespect them either. I even do show interest in some things, like the physiotherapy tools, and the massage things, because there is an underpinning to neurology.

I don't know what her training sessions with him will be like. I don't know how things will go if she doesn't feel like they are getting somewhere. I worry that if we don't make the kind of changes she hopes to see, that she will blame us for "being energetically blocked" or "resistant" to her "energy".

I feel like she could have come to me with a more positive way of looking at things too, as you say. She could have been more understanding of his summer of misadventures as "normal but tedious, but not uncommon injuries and mild issues that are FINE". She could say with hope in her voice "I would love to work with him to approach these issues and get a chance to build a stronger relationship with him, and to add some spiritual tools because I think they help me to communicate better". Instead, there was some undercurrent of grimness, like it was our last chance.

I don't think she would ever see a failure to communicate as her own need to change her approach, not if it comes from us. It would have to be something she sought out herself.

I rather think that you may not know a lot about horses, but you do understand people and power dynamics rather well.

[cf2princessawnw]

I'm glad you were able to process through some of this further and feel in a better place now with it. And I'm extra glad if any of my attempts to help actually were helpful! :) You always make animals seem relatable and understandable. So I guess that has helped me in trying to relate in return. :)

Great job on taking some of her feedback but still processing it in a way that is good for you and River, as a good owner would. <3

[gottawonder]

I am trying to be open to R's help, but I don't know how "spiritual" this will get.

My main goal is to help my horse.

[cf2princessawnw]

I think you are perfectly balanced and where you and River need you to be in all of this. Truly!

[gottawonder]

Thanks. I FEEL like I might be over-reacting. If I keep River's well-being at the center of all of this, that is one way of staying grounded.

[cf2princessawnw]

I don't know what you consider yourself, but I just keep thinking she's a fantastic and perfect horse-Mom. Because your wisdom and choices/instincts sound like my friends who are amazing moms of their kids.

[gottawonder]

In the past I have not made excellent choices, and part of my current mindset is to move forward to do better. The hard truth about owning animals, is that there is a lot one can be ignorant about, until it is too late. Or, you do your best to put your horse in the hands of a trainer, and sometimes it is not a good decision. Sometimes your own lack of knowledge with training, riding, saddle fitting, bits, or what ever end up causing harm.

I have failed at times.

I am not a perfect horse-mom, or animal-mom. I am an imperfect care giver, but I try.

I do not regard R in any way as a threat or a concern, to either one of us. She is just very spiritual, and I am less so. My only real issue, is just paying for things that are not constructive, like a horse-Reiki or something like that.

It is going to be kind of hard to go along with some of the more spiritual things, like drawing cards (she really does this, and takes it seriously) or using herbal treatments.

She gets fantastic results with her training, but I doubt that it is from the crystals.

That said, if she needs to feel like her spirituality guides her training, I will go along with it for the sake of the process. To a point.

[cf2princessawnw]

I think what makes you great in my mind is that you listen, you truly try to understand the needs of your animals. Just the way I've seen my sister and friends pay attention and try to interpret their littlest babies' needs and wants. And I can only guess that trainers would be like teachers and maybe babysitters. If they are good and serve their purpose, that's the goal of their presence in your world.

Continued best wishes for River!

[gottawonder]

It's a very good point, what you say about a "good" trainer. That their role is a teacher and babysitter.

The right kind of teacher, is important. The kind that understands different needs and keeps their own ego out of the picture.

[cf2princessawnw]

Absolutely - I can relate with music instruction that way and the right teacher is key. The wrong one or hitting a bump for too long, really messes the student up for awhile inside. A masterful teacher finds a way through, and that is what I hope to be if I get to teach again.

River has the benefit in this situation of you knowing so much. You're not just 'dumping him in daycare' so to speak while you get your nails done and know nothing about being a parent. You're a guardian of a horse, and that is part of your life. <3

[gottawonder]

Very much the truth! At some of these riding barns, people buy horses and never know a single thing about how to actually care for them, because they are paying the barn owner to do that. They end up just trusting everything the trainer tells them. They end up depending very much on that one person. I've been there.

Some barn owners prefer this, because it means they won't get much in the way of opinions from the horse owners who know nothing. It can go to some horrible places, too. Abused horses, bad farrier work, etc.

Those owners always have to pay to board the horse, sometimes they don't own their own land (pretty common) or they don't want the trouble of caring for it at home.

I have always owned horses, and cared for them myself. Not always perfectly, but once we moved to our current property I have really tried hard to learn, and used the opportunity of taking lessons at barns to learn about bits, saddles, winter blankets, and so on.

I will never know "enough", but I know enough to know I need to know more, does that make sense? Enough to know that if something isn't working, that I need to keep looking for a better answer. Not to accept the answer that isn't working.

When I grew up on the farm, it wasn't THAT great, because it was an isolated experience. No lessons, no exposure to resources, not a lot of opportunity to learn. I knew very little about the tack, just used what we had. Did very basic care. Really rough as far as riding skills (though I was brave and persistent).

I know enough to know now that even a barn owner/trainer doesn't know everything, and isn't always doing things the best way, or certainly not the ONLY way. I try to be open minded until it becomes apparent that it isn't working (or see that it is) and I am much less prone to thinking that the trainer is God.

It isn't easy to talk to a trainer/barn owner about alternatives, because they often feel that they DO know the best way to do something, or really don't want to admit that they don't know. It can be hard to defend your horse if the training session gets harsh.

In general, R has been a good trainer, and her methods are generally gentle and get results. River's overall body condition is the best it's ever been, and I can see a lot of improvement in our team work.

Yes, this recent stuff has been stressful, and I am trying to work through it since I generally see so much good at this barn.

[ratunderpaper]

It's a shame that the spiritual lady hasn't tuned in to the kindness channel or the awareness channel and communicated in a way that acknowledges the love between you and your horse, and the commitment you have with him. It should be very basic if she's attuned to the unarticulated needs of animals!

It's very nice of you to acknowledge the good she has done, but the good is mitigated by her disquieting behaviour.

[gottawonder]

The strangest part of this, is that I have only felt this way recently. This summer. Almost like a switch had gone off somewhere.

I don't know what happened.

I am simply starting to think that she is seeing me and River as a threat to...something.

I have that effect on people, and it makes me sad because it leads to a lot of people getting very defensive around me, and uncomfortable.

She really has done a lot for us, and I am really hoping that the upcoming training she wants to do helps us too.

[ratunderpaper]

Whatever it is, I hope she goes back to seeing you as someone on her side and not an adversary. People are strange. That's why I have to double up on syrup sometimes.

[gottawonder]

Yeah, I hope things settle down too.

I wonder if she isn't just as thrown off-balance by her husband being home so much and starting to teach lessons as I am, and everyone is struggling with power issues. Two years ago you barely saw him, and now he is teaching lessons a few days a week and exercising horses and helping on the other days. I'm sure it means everyone is defending "territory".

Needing to struggle with River to give him medications might have just been a tipping point.

[ratunderpaper]

Who knows what makes people behave the way they do? I admit I'm dog-tired of hearing about "disappointment" as a reason to treat others badly. It reminds me of an episode of Bob Newhart, in which he tells an overwhelmingly whiny patient to STOP IT.

https://youtu.be/Ow0lr63y4Mw

[gottawonder]

That is one of my favorite skits EVER!!!

I agree, R's approach left a lot to be desired, and her husband might want to try to relax a little about people being around when he is teaching a lesson. We pay money to be there too.

[ratunderpaper]

Yes, professionalism first and always.

Really, most people should be able to handle themselves with cordiality and professionalism.

[gottawonder]

I wouldn't say she was THAT unprofessional, but I agree. Somewhat unprofessional.

Mostly with the issue of not being in the barn during her husband's lessons, I think she was scrambling a bit, because her husband just kind of started making little noises about my stuff being in his way (my tack, my bag of grooming tools, that kind of thing). Then I think it annoyed him that I would just.. be there.

I don't think R realized it was going to be an issue, and dealt with it in a fuzzy, not clear fashion. First she just asked me to keep my things cleaned up and only in the exact vicinity of where River was, which I did. Then it kind of became "try not to be in the barn when he is in there with students".

Now I have a defined ride time which is kind of annoying, because I LIKE riding when other people are around. The good part of that, is that he CANNOT BITCH AT ME if I am there during my appointed time.

She knows that this is annoying for me. We had a general understanding before that it was just fine for me (and others) to be around during lesson times, as long as we didn't interrupt the actual lesson. We still can be around during her lessons. Just not his.

I would say she has been professional enough about her issues with River too, in terms of him still having his big hissy fits over certain things, like oral medication.

What IS unprofessional, in my opinion, is the feeling of not having a choice in the matter about her wanting time to work with him, though it does have to happen. I agreed weeks ago. She just wasted my lesson time talking about something I already agreed to. She was being nice about it, but she was also making it feel so negative and scary underneath it all. I can't explain it, her presentation was nice, but the undercurrent was "all of this is SO SERIOUS AND AWFUL, we need to invoke his angels, and you need to work on your energy with him, and his trauma is boiling up like a festering wound, and his energy means that we can't reach him". I don't know, it sounded like the nicest way possible to say that River was festering with trauma.

As I've said before, depending on how nuts this gets, I suppose I will try some of the spiritual stuff because it is what SHE NEEDS. I just don't know how far this will go.

I am trying to trust the process, and look at the many positive outcomes we have had with her, and others at the barn.

It's hard not to feel somewhat singled out by her husband, since my riding time was there first, and these new riders taking lessons were booked when I rode, and that isn't my fault that they are now getting a lesson at the same time as I ride. All they had to do was talk to me in a clear fashion, and it would have avoided the feeling of me somehow being at fault.

So, R wasn't being a toxic person, but maybe lacks the people skills to make this all more clear and save me from feeling like I did something bad by showing up to ride at my normal times?

[lantairvlea]

Have you tried some target training with River to help his "stand?" Do you do any positive reinforcement with him?

You can use anything from a hoola hoop to a mat to a piece of paper on the ground and give him the "job" of standing on it and reward that. Horses that can't stand still often feel that they aren't allowed to or it isn't a "thing to do." If R got aggressive with him and chased him around rather than quietly rewarding the right answer that very well could have made him nervous and maybe SHE needs to check HER energy and connection.

[gottawonder]

I've been giving him a TON of praise for a clean halt, and then I let him rest and stand there. I've been working on ground halts. It seems to be helping. I've used pylons as a clear stopping point, and used the rail so he doesn't shift his hindquarters.

I know very well, and I think R does too, that her outburst with River caused all of this.

In some ways, I understand what she was doing at the time. He DOES pull away rather violently at times when he wants to avoid something, in this case, the medication.

Her reasoning is make him work every time he wants to leave, and reward him for coming in and accepting the syringe (not always loaded, of course).

Her logic isn't wrong. It just ended up affecting his feeling of being safe standing still, which is weird, because what she was correcting was his pulling away. She was rewarding his standing still.

That said, I wasn't there the day it went down, I've only seen the work she did with him later.

He does seem to be back to halting comfortably. We were doing the obstacle course at Liberty, and he is willing to stand still to set up for an obstacle and for the ground halt.

I am relieved, because he was really antsy for a couple of weeks, and that's not like him. It did make me upset that whatever happened in their interaction affected him this way, though again, I can't be sure that she was wrong in the moment.

[lantairvlea]

I feel that any training session should end with the horse feeling better about what is going on than when you started and I imagine R is usually that way. I would say she was wrong in the moment if River is holding that much anxiety weeks after the incident. Her frustration got the better of her and I feel like she's trying to cover the fact that she screwed up and it's her fault you're having this issue.

I had a trailer loading session with a client horse that got a bit rough (mare was trying to run me over) and while the session ended with the mare calmly loading I felt horrible about it, apologized about how it went and offered free sessions until the mare was loading perfectly. I ended up losing the client, but I offered everything I could to make it right because I felt and knew it was ugly and not how I wanted to handle the horse (but she couldn't run me over either!!!).

[gottawonder]

From what I understand, this is kind of how things went with them. River can have big reactions to certain things, and then she does get right into him for it. It is an issue with loading, and with oral medication.

I was personally frustrated that she said the incident in question happened because she went out to the pasture to give him oral medication, and he pulled back and reared, and then she got into it with him.

Here's the thing, I know it takes more time, but if she had brought him into the barn to do it, she likely would have had very little problem with it, because he knows he can't go anywhere if you put him into a stall. That's what I do to deworm him.

She wouldn't have beaten him, I understand what she does. She uses a ton of energy to keep disengaging them at the hind quarters and making them work very hard every time they try to leave, as a way to make "staying" the best choice. I think it just ended up backfiring.

R is generally a very good trainer, and I'm sure even that day she tried to leave it on a better note than when they started, but I think the whole thing made River think that STANDING STILL was going to get him in trouble, because she wouldn't have allowed him to rest after he tried to pull away.

Sigh. We're working on it.

[lantairvlea]

Getting "big" and "aggressive" with ones energy with a horse that is having a big emotional reaction itself does not help the horse better manage its emotions and understand that whatever event or thing they habe an issue with is no big deal. I'm inclined to be with you on putting his halter on and taking him to be medicated rather than trying to do it loose in the field. While you should be able to eventually just medicate him anywhere, but stacking the deck in your favor and the horse's is a good thing!

You don't have to physically beat a horse to cause them distress and sensitive horses can be really bothered by just increased energy. I'm sorry you're dealing with this setback, but it sounds like you're working through it.