I miss how singers used to wear clothing.

[gottawonder]

Sigh. I'm sure this post makes me sound like an old.

Remember when a woman who sang songs and made videos used to wear clothes? Sometimes her entire body would be covered. She might even have a jacket on.

I stumbled across in interview with a sweet kid called "Rosalia", who is the new big thing. She was fully clothed in her interview, and seemed like a genuinely nice person. I went to see what her song was about, and this come up.

https://youtu.be/EslzthDFm2w

I liked the song, and I guess her lack of clothing was...creative?

I get it that it's not exactly news. Cher hardly wore clothes, but that was rare. Then Madonna. Now it seems like since about 1990, if you want to be a popular female vocalist, you perform in as little clothing as possible. One of those sparkly bodysuits, or even just a thong.

You've got Beyoncee, who wears kind of panties. Nicky Minaj who wears almost nothing. FKA Twigs who wears pretty much nothing. Doja Cat. Cardi B.

The only female performers who wear clothes that I can think of are Adele, and Billie Eilish.

This genre of "club music" all look like strippers, and we are supposed to think of it as empowering.

Yeah, I guess that makes me sound old.

Comments

[ratunderpaper]

Why old? Would you have thought this was great when you were half your age? What is particularly engaging about the costuming? Cardi B is one of the most ostentatious performers I have seen/heard, but I don't think her overt vulgarity is fresh or original.
You might like this group:

https://losbitchos.com

Lizzo's music is a lot of fun, but I don't care to see her shake her near-naked backside when I'm trying to enjoy my ramen.

[gottawonder]

Because whenever a person is critical of currently popular culture, the knee-jerk response of many is "You're just old, you don't get it".

I thought the full-body sparkle make-up was creative. Nude without exactly being nude. Still...not necessary.

We did have a few nearly nude kind of performers when I was in high school, it was just not as common, and pretty scandalous. Remember when Madonna's "Sex" book came out? Even at the time though, I didn't get why it was such a big deal when it wasn't that hard to go get a porn magazine.

Maybe because she was supposed to be a more mainstream artist, not a porn model?

I didn't think the near nudity was great when I was half my age, because I have never thought that women should just use their body that way for attention. It seems unhealthy and sets crazy standards for the women who will follow, wanting to be performers. As in, every producer will want to see them perform naked in videos and in concert, or that will just become expected.

I felt kind of sick to my stomach the whole time Brittany Spears was being paraded around as jail bait when she was more or less a child.

I don't like how women like Cardi B. were strippers (and probably hookers) and they bring that energy to their music, and how now it seems like in order to be a popular female rapper you have to bring that kind of energy with you.

Bottom line: It feels like women selling out, and betraying women as a whole to pander to the male gaze this way. It is the laziest, cheapest route to garner attention, instead of just showcasing your TALENT.

No talent? No problem. Just show 'em your tits. You'll get at least a few minutes of fame for that.

I get that on some level, it feels transgressive and sexy, but after a while, it is just...tiresome.

I love Lizzo too, and while I get why she does shake her nearly naked butt (because why should skinny girls have all the attention), I would be just as happy to see her shake it with pants on.

[ratunderpaper]

To me, there's a difference between celebrating respect and inclusion regardless of one's appearance (specifically weight, since we're talking about Lizzo), and celebrating morbid obesity. That difference is a blurry line, though. Lizzo is uplifting every marginalised person who's been disrespected, and it probably has nothing to do with glorifying high cholesterol.

[gottawonder]

I struggle with the body positivity message because of how unhealthy obesity is. I have to say though, I am more with it than against it.

I agree that we shouldn't celebrate obesity, because it is fast becoming the main reason for early death.

YET, I also understand the idea that we should stop excluding bigger people from things just based on their size. After all, it seemed fine all along to include people who smoked, drank, or used drugs as long as they looked good.

I love how Lizzo dances, and has fun with her appearance, and doesn't let her size hold her back. I like how we see more models of realistic size too.

Being obese is an issue, but many of the people that used to be shamed for not being perfect weren't really an unhealthy size. How many actresses were emotionally destroyed by the shaming? People like Carrie Fisher, who was TINY, or Judy Garland who was a perfectly beautiful young woman told constantly to lose weight. It would have been nice if they could have been saved that criticism.

[ratunderpaper]

I'm more interested in Lizzo's ability as a flautist than the jiggling of her rump, but it's not my business to ask which attribute is her favourite.

Are those who are morbidly obese shamed when they are asked to purchase two seats on an airplane? Should they be given two seats without cost or question?

Those who are not considered beautiful should not face the expectation of beauty, but it's a cruel world. Those who are beautiful should not be overly praised for it, as though it were an achievement of theirs. Criticism is endless.

[gottawonder]

I agree that I am a lot more interested in people's talent. Before he died of respiratory failure at the age of 38, I loved the music of Israel Kamakawiwoʻole. He neither glorified obesity, nor politicized his body.

I don't know how obese people feel about needing to purchase airplane seats. Maybe they could be given a second seat if the flight is not full. There is room for compassion.

I agree that we should not heap criticism on people for their appearance, nor praise those born beautiful overly.

Yet, we are beings wired to respond to beauty, and a great deal of what is not beautiful is also an ingrained instinct that seeks health and symmetry. Beyond that is ingrained culture.

[ratunderpaper]

I'm not amused by gluttony in general, not just morbid obesity. The mukbang trend (which started in Korea) disgusts me - but there are a gazillion YouTube aficionados who would disagree and say it's amusing.

[gottawonder]

I had to look that one up.

Other than the focus on it being huge portions, I otherwise kind of get why people might enjoy this. It is like having a big meal with a friend.

We're a lonely planet, these days.

I've noticed there are more "talk shows" that feature food. I've been watching something called "Chicken Shop Dates" lately, literally the same person interviewing people in chicken shops. It makes it all very low key and relatable, to think she's just meeting up with someone at a little place around the corner.

There is also that one where people eat hot wings during the interview, and they get hotter, and hotter. I've never really understood the draw of "hot" sauce, because it isn't enjoyable. But, I guess it makes the interviews fun?

There is something about the act of watching someone eat that feels social, even if it is a video.

There was a show a long time ago called "Dinner for Five" hosted by Jon Favreau, that was really cozy. It was him and four other celebrities (usually actors) that all talked back and forth over a meal. It was kind of an interview situation, but felt mostly unscripted. It was nice that whoever wasn't talking was eating or drinking, and it all felt really relaxed.

I can kind of understand even watching someone eating what looks like something very delicious, and sort of vicariously enjoying it.

Yes, I get that the gluttony part is unsavory. I do get the idea of watching people eat and talk or be funny, and enjoying that.

I never liked the idea behind eating contests. It seemed horrifying to see people stuff themselves like that, and likely going and throwing it all up again.

I am also turned off by conspicuous consumption. The whole thing of rappers walking around with tens of thousands of dollars worth of gold around their neck, or celebrities with hundreds of designer bags worth thousands of dollars each. I don't know where just having a luxurious life becomes disgusting, but there are times when I feel like that seeing how some people live.

Yet, if I had the money I might be willing to give it a try! I would probably just have a really amazing horse facility or something.

[ratunderpaper]

Gluttony is the point of mukbang. It's not about sharing a meal with a friend. It's like an eating contest without the time limit. I don't want to get sanctimonious about it - but why not buy the food for a food bank or hand out cheeseburgers to street kids who could use it?

[gottawonder]

Yeah, the gluttony part makes no sense.

[cf2princessawnw]

So I'm trying to be more open-minded when it comes to dress and performing given that I'm venturing back out into that world myself.... but eeewwwww! I instinctively covered the screen and said that. I don't want to see that, any of that.

All I can say is that I HOPE, so hope, that the youth of today somehow can find that distasteful, though that's the whole problem. They are at a time in life when they are developing their own ideas and understanding of what's appropriate or classy or attractive or cool - and we all know we look to pop stars in some respect at that age whether we mean to or not.

Arianna Grande looks like she wears puffy sparkly diapers. I just don't get it. Like you said, maybe it's a club dancer kind of thing and pulling from the dress of parts of society that were once not considered a part OF society.

All I can say is that if one of those girls interviews about how hard the industry is because of pressure to look perfect - I will lose it in a momentary diatribe. I'm a musician. I'm a performer, albeit not super-star. I get it. But I do NOT get THIS.

[gottawonder]

That's funny what you said about Ariana wearing puffy diapers. At least her butt is covered some of the time.

You made a good point with performers drawing from what used to be underground culture to make their mainstream offerings seem edgy. I suppose that's not new either; used to be the punk look like Blondie or Joan Jett was the underground look at one time.

I really admire how certain performers go a different path, and manage to be successful without looking like strippers. Lorde, Florence and the Machine, The Yeah Yeah Yeahs (way more punk vibe there).

[cf2princessawnw]

I wonder how many of them would truly last if they were never ever seen and judged forever solely on their music.

[gottawonder]

I have wondered that as well.

[lantairvlea]

I've always been in the "sex is not a spectator sport" camp and hyper-sexualized things bother me and I tend to roll my eyes and move on.

All I can think of with some of these so-called "outfits" is how uncomfortable they must be, riding up, pinching, threatening to creep and show more than intended. Women are supposedly "liberated" and yet are still entrapped by the male gaze. If they weren't told this was the way to look would they really want to dress that way?

I wear form-fitting clothes a lot (breeches!) and there's some that fit better than others and make me feel more empowered and capable. I just can't envision feeling that way with my thighs rubbing together and my buttocks threatening to fall out of my shorts.

[gottawonder]

I look at some of them, like Beyoncee often has kind of...briefs, and they might be comfortable enough.

In general, I think a lot of them would leave you terrified that your last slip of dignity would be gone if you miscalculated that last squat.

I understand form-fitting clothes being useful as a dancer, but the hyper-sex aspect of it blurs the line between them being dancers/singers and them just being sex workers.

I agree, that it isn't feminism if all you are doing is reverting back to one of the oldest ways to make money.

[lantairvlea]

Agreed on all accounts!